sorohanro 2013-11-26 21:11:25

Same thing goes with music. The "we make a movie/presentation/website/whatever/spaceship, but we don't have any money for music" is one of the most popular.

Gianni 2013-11-26 21:26:37

I hear exposure is surprisingly low in nutritional value, and my electric company keeps telling me that it's not legal tender.

I do amateur work for amateurs, all for free. They'll see less than a dime in pathetic ad revenue, and a lot of these people have offered to split that whole ten cents with me. But seriously, when someone rolls up in an e-mail that has a signature, a logo, a link to a website, and continuously refers to themselves as "us" or "we", but they're still not paying a dime, my eyebrow raises an extra inch beyond its normal skepticism.

Seriously, "professional" just means you get paid for it. So what kind of "professional" isn't paying? You wanna be the businessman? Fine, that's fine, but real businessmen buy their fucking assets, you clown. Take your cheap suit somewhere else and come back to me when you can afford a real one, and come back when you want to run a real business.

DarkGlint 2013-11-26 21:30:42

Thanks for taking the time to write all this out for us new artists. It's nice to have the warning and what to look for all right here.

Blordow 2013-11-26 22:29:08

I won a contest on 99designs about 5 years back. I remember being super stoked winning a big amount of cash for putting in such little effort, but it was all too good to be true. After winning I never heard from the contest holder and was never paid. Needless to say it was a lesson learnt and I never participate in anything that requires you to make something before paying anymore :P

Saminat 2013-11-26 22:30:02

They actually tell you this in the modeling industry you know. They call it "prestige" work. You don't get paid, but you get exposure. It's a pretty different world out there than it is with art, but the concept is still bitter tasting, no matter how you slice it.

squeakytoad 2013-11-26 22:40:13

I only worry that this might deter collaboration between fellow independent artists, who may now all start glancing at each other suspicious of who's ripping off whom.
I don't really make money off 90% of the animations I create. It's why I have to take breaks from animating when life gets busy. It's a hobby for me.
When I ask a musician to throw music toward a project that I'm likely only going to make $15sh on from YouTube ads, I'm not scamming him. I used to animate scenes for other artists on this site because I liked their work, and we'd collaborated quite a bit. I'm fairly certain they also wasn't making much more than a few ad dollars.

"That's not fair to you, even if you enjoy that particular project, or it's for a 'friend'."

I didn't feel it's unfair to me. We're a community of mostly casual hobbyists helping each other out. There's not a huge market out there just demanding we quit our dayjobs and pick up our tablet pens or recording mics or musical instruments of choice.
While this might be great advice for someone trying to make it professionally, it'd be too bad if someone walked away from this post never willing to collaborate or help another artist out, afraid they're being cheated out of something.

Gianni 2013-11-26 23:15:44

You should have seen me the first time I actually researched who was behind "we" when it first came across my plate. I'm pretty sure I stopped responding to e-mails entirely and then a few weeks later I sent them an e-mail like "Nah, but good luck I guess." Not very professional, but neither is my complete lack of sobriety for seventy percent of my recordings.

I agree with the collaboration point. Again, from the amateur VA perspective at least, not doing my shit for free wouldn't really make sense for most of the projects I sign up for. But yeah, a proper business can pony up. Buy your assets, motherfucker. That's what the budget graph is for.

Doomroar 2013-11-26 23:18:22

What a great advice, exposure will helpful doesn't really grants you much besides just that.

Turd 2013-11-26 23:34:54

This is the most intelligent discussion I've ever seen on Newgrounds & I love it.

Knights 2013-11-27 00:12:37

By "exposure", you don't mean things like internships, right? As an artist just starting out, I'm hoping to get connections and experience by interning at a relatively known production company over the summer, and am nervous that my time will be wasted because of it. I should also mention that this internship is sponsored by my university, so I'm positive it's legit, but I still want to make sure I'm not being used here.

YoutubeIsawesome 2013-11-27 02:52:03

Some people like that

or you could just get some causal job while you do the work on the side

MisterHerbal 2013-11-27 07:10:43

AMEN. PREACH BROTHER, PREACH.

bigjonny13 2013-11-27 07:54:22

Ah, this brings to back to many of the great discussions we've had in the art forum. This topic in particular has made the rounds a few times, including that video from Stephen Silver.

SkuhPlew 2013-11-27 13:28:33

Is Carly Rae Jepsen really attending? Sounds exciting.

Kel-chan 2013-11-27 13:48:02

Yah I saw this before.

Since artists are so desperate for any kind of exposure or pay they sell themselves out.

Man...I'm glad I'm not an artist lol

TrueMisfit 2013-11-27 14:13:04

This is good advice, though I also think it should go as a case by case basis.
What if you're trying to help out a friend with something else by using your artwork?

For instance, I am starting up an indie game company and obviously need a little bit of catchy art stuffs to look at, and I have plenty of friends who can draw really well!
But this means I kinda have, ya know, no money.

What if they were mostly doing this to help me out? In this case exposure is really the only thing I could offer.

VicariousE 2013-11-27 18:17:30

You made another post like this a while ago, didn't you? Still, it's good to keep saying it, and putting things in perspective. Oddly enough, I've got the opposite problem... paid for a commission up front, and no words, sketches, or any contact at all! Pretty expensive one too :(

Apatheria 2013-11-27 20:31:15

I've dealt with this a lot as a freelance voice actor, too. "It's good exposure and I'll be sure to put your name in the credits!" - as if being credited is a privilege in and of itself, when it's something the producer is -always supposed to do- anyway.

This lady knows her stuff, folks. Pay close attention to this article, and follow this advice!

jennyleigh 2013-11-27 20:41:24

Thank you so much for posting this! I believe I was caught up in this. I did some freelance work for this group of people who couldn't pay me but i looked at it that i would be getting publicity so to speak. i told them i'd like money to do more art for them and they said they could try and pay me but im a little hesitant to do it now. im super busy right now anyways so i had to back out of the project for now. i really appreciate this post however! :)

the-Dark-Neighbor 2013-11-27 23:15:02

You said it. I'm a graphic designer and copywriter who is relatively new at freelancing, and I wish I had seen your post six months ago. Thanks for spreading the word and cautioning others who are looking to get into this (often highly underappreciated) field.